Learning Kari Truku (太魯閣語) has revealed a couple of issues

Learning Kari Truku (太魯閣語) has revealed a couple of issues

Postby Nanshen » Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:01 pm

Sup Ernie!!

So I've been using FCD for years now. Notably I've used it to learn Chinese, ace aviation exams, teach a few people English, and memorize key concepts for a Masters program.

Recently, I've been using FCD to learn the Taroko language (Kari Truku / 太魯閣族語) which is spoken by the aboriginals here in Hualien, Taiwan.

For some context, the Taroko people only number about 30,000, and less than half of them can speak their ancestral tongue... so since this is such a rare language, that means of course there's no Pleco or Duolingo to help me along.

Instead, I've been collecting songs+lyrics and stories+recordings, and putting these into FCD so I can read and listen.

The main reason I'm using FCD for Kari Truku is not actually for its flashcard function (although I do use that, in Leitner mode, to quickly get a handle on new vocabulary); rather, the killer feature is is the Card Links feature, which in "Partial - Full" mode (pointed to the 2,000 words or so I loaded into a couple of vocabulary decks) allows me to use FCD as a sort of popup-dictionary reader -- I can read along, tap a word, and it'll take me to the definition in my vocabulary decks.

This is a godsend!

HOWEVER, there is some room for improvement in the way the popup functions.

Currently, if I tap a word a list of matches in my multiple decks pops up (unless there's only one match...), and then I can select one and go to see my word's definition in that vocabulary deck, which is great... but then the app resets my audio play (so I lose my listening position!).

IT WOULD BE AMAZING IF, just like how Card Links has a "Source Field" and "Target Field", it could also have a third "Display Field" so that instead of showing the Target Field (Text 1, in my case) on the match list, it could instead show either the translation (Text 2) or my own custom popup definition (Text 5).

For example, let's say I'm reading "...Tai saw spruun kana seejiq ka suyang hangan su..." and I tap the word seejiq; as the app is now, the list will simply show me 2 entries for "seejiq", so I'll have to select one to go view that card (and lose my place...).

But if I could simply point the Display Field to Text 2 it'd instead show me "人" and "人;人們"; if I could point it to Text 4 it'd show me "person" and "people, individuals"; and if I could point it to Text 5 it'd show me "seejiq :: 人; person" and "seejiq :: 人;人們; people, individuals".

In the case of my Text 5, that'd be such complete information, that I wouldn't even have to tap the word to go look at the card -- I wouldn't have to lose my listening place! Rather I could just glance at the popup definitions to get a feel for the word and move on.

So that's feature request #1: I want more control over what happens when I tap a Card Link, so I can use FCD as a proper popup dictionary to save time and avoid losing my listening place.

Sometimes though, I'll still want to select a definition to view the card, because I'll want to flag the card for further study (via Leitner).

In that case, if you could also let FCD remember my scroll and audio position for when I return, that'd be fantastic.

Feature request #2: I want FCD to remember my audio play position for when I return from a Card Link, so I don't lose my listening place.

And with that, FCD would become a superbly functional popup-dictionary reader and flashcard combo -- read the thing, popup the dict, flag what you need to learn, and flashcard the vocab. This whole process could bo sooooo smoooooth.

Anyway, I know you're not into adding new features so you'll probably ignore this, but I thought I'd share my thoughts anyway. Coz the world needs this. I need this. The aboriginals of dying languages everywhere need this. And it wouldn't require any special effort from such an excellent developer as yourself. :)

Knhuway musa!
Nanshen
 
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Re: Learning Kari Truku (太魯閣語) has revealed a couple of issu

Postby Nanshen » Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:00 pm

While we're on wish lists...

Y'know the word order of Austonesian languages (like Kari Truku) can be really difficult to get a handle on?

Here's an example:

ENGLISH --> Today's weather is very nice!
CHINESE --> 今天 天氣 (是) 很 好!
K.TRUKU --> Malu bi ka karat sayang!


Cool, right? Word for word everything matches up?

WRONG!

Translated back that's:

... 好 很 (是) 天氣 今天!
... Nice very is weather today!


:roll:

So dude, you got multiple choice in FCD. You even got spelling which, with some compromises, enables single-word cloze drills. And these are both great for learning single vocabulary words and short phrases.

But where's the sorting/scrambled sentence answer method? Either as a drag and drop list, or as tap-to-insert sentence constructor ala Duolingo, or Lingodeer, or this plugin for Anki (www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esno7z1DJ7A), etc.?

If only FCD had an input mode suited to the sentence level... some way to train me quickly and effectively at grammar and word order... then I'd be able take the thousands of sentences (and their translations) that I've already collected from songs and stories, and simply pop them into a new deck, and start learning on a whole 'nother level.

Feature request #3: I want a sorting or construct-a-sentence input method so I can efficiently and intuitively train grammar and word order.
Nanshen
 
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Re: Learning Kari Truku (太魯閣語) has revealed a couple of issu

Postby Ernie » Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:23 pm

Hi Nanshen,

1) If audio didn't lose it's position, I think this request would not be so needed. I think adding such functionality would be rarely needed.

2) I agree that the app should remember audio position! This was somewhat of an oversight on my part. I assume you have "allow pause" turned on. The next update will fix this so that leaving and returning to the study screen won't reset playback position when "allow pause" is turned on.

3) I agree that having better support for close and even a new study mode for ordering sentence parts would be nice. But these are not simple to program and not at the top of my priority list. While maybe this sentence game is effective, I've always found it kind of tedious to "play". So I'm not a super fan. Probably won't happen.

Are you using iOS or Android? The answer may affect my priority in releasing a new version.
Ernie
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Re: Learning Kari Truku (太魯閣語) has revealed a couple of issu

Postby Nanshen » Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:09 am

Hey Ernie,

I'm on IOS.

"Tedious"!? Someone sent me this Anki template https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/482979523 and I've been having an absolute blast with it. Made weeks of progress in just a few days. Only problem is, special characters break the code, so won't work for most languages.

Image

Speaking of special characters, I've also been learning Esperanto recently, which has revealed a bug in the card links:

Esperanto uses the special characters ĉ, ĝ, ĥ, ĵ, ŝ, and ŭ. So far I've noticed that ĉ and ĝ tend to cause the app to crash (and me to lose all progress) whenever I tap and hold to activate the detail/card link mode. My cards are linked via the 'Partial - Full' mode.

In actual use this bug appears when a card like putinfilaĉo tries to link to a card like ĉo, or Ne ĉagrenu tries to link to . It crashes either to the main FCD screen or to desktop, and all progress is lost (meaning if I swiped 50 cards just before trying to activate detail/card link mode, then after the crash it'll be like those swipes never happened).

I put a couple decks up for you to see, deck code EsperantoCrashingCardLink1 ("Source with ĉo") and deck code EsperantoCrashingCardLink2 ("Target with ĉo").

Not sure if it's an easy fix coz those special characters are proving problematic for me even in Excel and Notepad++... but damn it's frustrating being too afraid to use the card link feature; that's my favorite feature. :(
Nanshen
 
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Learning Kari Truku (太魯閣語) has revealed a couple of issu

Postby Ernie » Thu Sep 21, 2023 2:57 pm

Hi Nansen,

Thanks for the video of the sentence build feature! I agree this looks relatively straightforward for both programmer and user. I probably won't get to this anytime soon, but I really do have interest in eventually trying it.

Sorry for the loss of progress. This is something I really need to address. I don't save often enough.

As for the crash, this will be fixed for next update. Update coming later than planned, but by next week.

But after fixing the crash, the card links still won't work in your case. The problem is different unicode encodings. In your Source deck, the "ĉ" was "combined", meaning the ĉ is a single characters. In the second file, the "ĉ" was "decomposed" meaning it was represented in two letters: a regular c and extra diacritic mark. I don't have plans to auto-fix this kind of difference.

There is a website that might help you. For your Target deck, try combining the characters and see if that helps:

https://dencode.com/en/string/unicode-normalization

Copy Excel column of text
Paste into the top box in webpage.
Expand “Encoded” section and click on “Unicode NFC”. (c=combined)
Click the Copy button at right and paste back into Excel in a new column....
Ernie
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